tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post115263761464449509..comments2023-09-13T04:31:43.283-07:00Comments on The Abandoned Mind: Orthodox EvangelismFr. Michael Reaganhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02265035749268657422noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1153451712863154512006-07-20T20:15:00.000-07:002006-07-20T20:15:00.000-07:00I think the first "anonymous" is back to the "dire...I think the first "anonymous" is back to the "direct connection" to Christ via the Bible, versus needing-the Church issue!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1153414761080463472006-07-20T09:59:00.000-07:002006-07-20T09:59:00.000-07:00Anon...To paraphrase Father Patrick Reardon...of c...Anon...<BR/><BR/>To paraphrase Father Patrick Reardon...of course we believe in deathbed conversions! Only bitter, hateful folks will reject the notion of the possibility of a sincere awakening at the hour of death. There is hope, even for me...which is why we pray to be delivered from sudden death, in order that we may have the opportunity to repent. <BR/><BR/>but i'm with the "other anon", I'm not sure how you gleaned that from the current discussion.Munkeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05817410572901118548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1153394545260311102006-07-20T04:22:00.000-07:002006-07-20T04:22:00.000-07:00To the previous anonymous, How can you come up wit...To the previous anonymous, How can you come up with a statement like this from this dialogue? I am missing something.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1153366602278893972006-07-19T20:36:00.000-07:002006-07-19T20:36:00.000-07:00So if a man pledged to Christ on his deathbed, som...So if a man pledged to Christ on his deathbed, somehow, even that amount of Evangelism is not acceptable.<BR/><BR/>Enough.<BR/><BR/>Good Evening.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1153153185443373372006-07-17T09:19:00.000-07:002006-07-17T09:19:00.000-07:00I find that interesting. If in fact the Latin tran...I find that interesting. If in fact the Latin translation (Augustine') was/is incorrect; and if that can be verified (along with the Greek); wouldn't you think that would be a point of interest to western theologians? And, if this pov is correct, how could and would a long line of western theologians not pick up on that and in fact continue to build on this Augustininan foundation of "original sin"? It's a very well known idea in the east. The reason the east never accepted Augustine's pov is that they read the Greek text which was clearly different. Given that "original sin" is perhaps th single most important distinction between east and west, one would think this would be a major topic of interest and debate. If the argument hinges on something as verifiable as checking the Latin translation of the time and the Greek text, and this is true (or false for that matter) this subject would be resolved. But I agree with you: the E.O.C. is a non-event for Evangelicals, who assume they've got all matters of faith "locked up".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1153125078665861922006-07-17T01:31:00.000-07:002006-07-17T01:31:00.000-07:00It would probably be better to ask a Catholic scho...It would probably be better to ask a Catholic scholar about this, or at least someone whose background is higher-church than mine. Latin was never emphasized in my training, since it is not an "original" biblical language, and I was not a specialist in patristics. My wife's Catholic boss was always horrified that I was at a Catholic school (for my Ph.D. work), studying what appeared to be a subject of religious interest, and was not required to know Latin.<BR/><BR/>Add to this that for the most part Orthodoxy is completely off the radar for Evangelicals, and finding an answer becomes even less likely. When I started trying to seriously wrestle with Orthodoxy, my pastor recommended that I talk to some of my old seminary profs. I've also tried talking to a lot of Evangelical friends about this stuff--basically, no one has much grasp of what Orthodoxy is about. I went back and looked at my notes on historical theology, and there were specific remarks in them to the effect that we didn't have time to cover everything, so we would only look in detail at the Western view.<BR/><BR/>All that's to say that, no, I never came across the debate in school, and although I might be able to muddle my way through the Latin, my understanding wouldn't be anything authoritative. Sorry I can't be of more help.abuianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14177125847519190290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1153104965159868682006-07-16T19:56:00.000-07:002006-07-16T19:56:00.000-07:00Dear Abuian:I have been wanting to ask someone thi...Dear Abuian:<BR/><BR/>I have been wanting to ask someone this question who is not in the Orthodox "camp", but who has broad knowledge of the scriptures, history, Greek, etc. Based on your last post and what I have read in other posts, you may be the person I'm looking for! My question will emerge from the following!<BR/><BR/>The E.O. view of "original sin" as you probably know is different from the western view, which is based on the writngs of Augustine/Anselm. <BR/><BR/>The E.O. view is that Adam's sin created an ontological-spiritual sickness leading to mortality (death) that affects all humanity and that Christ came to save us from (death). <BR/><BR/>Augustine and Anselm's view - as well as Luther's and the Reformers' - as I understand it is that Adam's guilt and sin were both imputed to the human race, so that we are not only victims of the consequance of Adamic "sin" (death), but equally guilty in an ontological sense of the "sin" of Adam. From this comes the idea that the soul is therefore thoroughly depraved or stained, so that not a speck of God's image is left! This led Anselm to conclude that man needed to offer a sacrifice to God, otherwise he could never be "right" with God. This sacrifice was of course provided by God in the form of His Son on the Cross. It is a mirroring of the sacrificial atonement rituals in the old Testament, whereby Christ is punished for our sins etc.<BR/><BR/>While The E.O. do not deny the crucial importance of Christ's death as an offering for sins, it doesn't confine God's redemptive ministry to Golgotha alone; nor does it tend to view the atonement in this legalistic way ("justice", "penalty" etc). rather it sees Christ's entire ministry (incarnation-ascension) as a deification-restoration of human nature.<BR/><BR/>The E.O. argument for the Augustinian "error" (as it is often stated) is that his interpretation of the Fall was based on a faulty Latin translation of Romans 5:12. It was from this text that he read his interpretation (the argument goes) into the Genesis account. <BR/><BR/>His version of the passage supposedly reads: "Therefore, just as through one man death entered into the world, and that through sin, so death spread to all men *in whom* [Adam] all sinned."<BR/><BR/>The more accurate Greek translation of the text reads: "Therefore, just as through one man death entered into the world, and that through sin, so death spread to all men *for that* [or *in that*] all sinned."<BR/><BR/>In Augustine's version of the passage states that all humanity had sinned in Adam's sin and creation was therefore *stained* ontologically from that point forward. <BR/><BR/>The correct text reads that Adam's sin carried death to humanity and that although our sin is evidence to this death, it is not Adam's specific transgression that we have inherited. <BR/><BR/>My question: did you learn about this in your studies? Did this ever come up (IE this argument?). Have you read the Latin text and compared it to the Greek?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1152934738893475422006-07-14T20:38:00.000-07:002006-07-14T20:38:00.000-07:00I just wanted to express my agreement with Fr. Mic...I just wanted to express my agreement with Fr. Michael's most recent comment. My version of Paul's "Hebrew of Hebrews" summary is that I was born to an Evangelical parent, raised in an Evangelical home, excelled in an Evangelical youth group, graduated top of my class from Evangelical Bible college, then seminary (Th.M.), won an award in college for my skill with Greek, represented my seminary at a national Greek competition, taught undergraduate Greek while finishing seminary (as well as Bible and theology courses), went on to study Hebrew and several other Semitic languages for the past six years in pursuit of a Ph.D.<BR/><BR/>But starting toward the end of my time in seminary and coming to a head as I finished my Ph.D. coursework, I learned a critical lesson--that Evangelical hermeneutics simply don't work. One of the earliest components to this realization was learning (and I should note that this was explicitly affirmed by my teachers) that knowledge of biblical languages does not clarify interpretation. In fact, it multiplies the ambiguities and questions that are normally masked by a good translation.<BR/><BR/>All that's to say that interpretation relies on a good deal more than just picking apart linguistic features of texts. There's not much point arguing on that kind of basis, especially if Orthodoxy acknowledges that the approach is deficient, since Evangelical respondents can simply turn around and give their interpretation. It gets things nowhere.abuianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14177125847519190290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1152932176331803192006-07-14T19:56:00.000-07:002006-07-14T19:56:00.000-07:00Perhaps Ere, wouldn't a Roman Catholic say the sam...Perhaps Ere, wouldn't a Roman Catholic say the same thing though?<BR/><BR/>It would seem that Scripture leads to EO Church in that thought, instead of Scripture leading to God, who is best represented in the EO Church.<BR/><BR/>And a Roman Catholic could say the same thing.<BR/><BR/>Good Evening Ere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1152927085635954592006-07-14T18:31:00.000-07:002006-07-14T18:31:00.000-07:00Scriptural exegesis based on parsing the text in i...Scriptural exegesis based on parsing the text in its original language—while much venerated as the supreme craft of the spiritually elite in Evangelicalism—is still no guarantee of an accurate interpretation. If one is given to bad doctrine, reading the text in its original language will still yield bad doctrine. Eastern Orthodoxy does not embody true doctrine by virtue of its knowledge of the original languages alone, but by strictly adhering to the mind of the Church in all things. This mind, first revealed in those who wrote the Scriptures, has guided the Orthodox faithful in their interpretation and understanding of them ever since. This is the supremely most critical element missing from Evangelical Christianity, which has rejected the mind of the Church in favor of personal opinion influenced by the Western culture of independent reason. The Bible is not “everyman’s” book; it is the book of the Church. If one reads it without being drawn to the Church, one has grossly misunderstood and misinterpreted it, regardless of the language from which it was read.Fr. Michael Reaganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265035749268657422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1152922585731682092006-07-14T17:16:00.000-07:002006-07-14T17:16:00.000-07:00Why is it assumed that all the answers are known? ...Why is it assumed that all the answers are known? My "denomination" is Christian not a hyphenated one at that, merely a Chrsitian.<BR/><BR/>However, I know evangelicals, perhaps I am one, to that I would say "Of course, I Evangelize all of the time"<BR/><BR/>However, Evangelicals cling ot the Scriptures above all else, yet they (I) know that underneath is a underpinning of both Greek, Latin and Hebrew. A deent Evangelical owns a Strong's or a Schofield to try and translate English to greek and hebrew.<BR/><BR/>The EO has done that already, so the suggestion is, to be even more knowledgable than even the most devout Evangelical. <BR/><BR/>Thusly "rebuke a wise man once and you never have to do it again"<BR/><BR/>Now to be honest, the whole "John the Baptists right hand" will not fly, but EO compared to "write checks to donate, even if you don't have the money, God will cover it" is quite simply insane.<BR/><BR/>Go were they are in the Faith so to speak, a house on a forboding hill is not inviting, someone who can gently and correctly correct, is always welcome and rebukes gently at the same time.<BR/><BR/>With Love Fr ReaganAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1152922016558557572006-07-14T17:06:00.000-07:002006-07-14T17:06:00.000-07:00Sure Anonymous, but isn't that what the Orthodox C...Sure Anonymous, but isn't that what the Orthodox Church has been doing since long before Protestantism even existed? There are lots of valuable Orthodox resources to explore, as well as the Church itself. The problem is that Evangelicals in particular have not bothered to look into these things, as they believe they have things all sewn up.<BR/><BR/>It can be difficult to reach a people who assume they already have all the answers.Fr. Michael Reaganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265035749268657422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1152920263118648532006-07-14T16:37:00.000-07:002006-07-14T16:37:00.000-07:00Of course to respond in kind to the suppostions pu...Of course to respond in kind to the suppostions put forth would not be gracious or even kind. <BR/><BR/>Eremitike did pose a very valid question concerning my reply. While meaning to speak highly of the Orthodox teaching tradition, and the fact that most "teachers" in the Evangelical movement go to Greek meanings to explain difficulties. the exact opposite of speaking highly of has occured, as if a challenge has been broached.<BR/><BR/>That is not the case, rather perhaps the Orthodox should make use of the fact that Greek is the tool used ot try and explain the Bible "better". Who knows Greek better than the Orthodox Church?<BR/><BR/>How uplifting it could be if the EO would dispell some bad Evangelical teachngs merely by understanding the meanings of the original passages better than almost all of the Evangelicals.<BR/><BR/>As has been said "Correct a wise man once, and you'll never have to do it again" and in so doing introduce EO to American Evangelicalism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1152911958829470362006-07-14T14:19:00.000-07:002006-07-14T14:19:00.000-07:00For anonymous’ benefit, perhaps I should define my...For anonymous’ benefit, perhaps I should define my terms. When I assert that modern Evangelicalism has become little more than a “cerebral” faith, what I mean is that it has systematically “symbolized” virtually every physical element of traditional Christianity until it has arrived at a religion that is actualized entirely in the mind of the individual believer. Despite frequent comparisons of their movement to a self-defined and highly-romanticized version of “The New Testament Church” (the actual historical details of which they ignore and the remaining vague concept they idealize in order to fabricate a false dichotomy between the early Church and the exact same Church in the centuries which followed), in fact Evangelicalism is more closely related to Gnosticism than Apostolic Christianity in its efforts to “spiritualize” the faith and distance itself from all the practical, incarnational aspects of it.<BR/><BR/>Thus the Church itself, its divine life and sacraments, our organic union with Christ’s glorified human nature, and the “narrow and difficult” ascetical path of the Christian life have all been redefined by Evangelicalism to arrive at an understanding of them that is purely figurative in nature and agreeably acceptable to a belief system artificially limited to human reason and closer in content to pagan dualism than incarnational Christianity.<BR/><BR/>In this context we should not confuse “cerebral” with “intellectual”. An intellectual approach to the faith would surely not dismiss the witness of historic Christianity or refuse to explore it for fear of uncovering the inadequacies in ones own faith. Rather, such study would be pursued in the hope of gaining a better understanding of what the real New Testament Church actually believed and passed on to successive generations of Christians, regardless of the consequences such discoveries will bear upon ones present assumptions.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps this is why many converts to Orthodoxy today are somewhat “bookish” people. These are the folks who do the study and arrive at the inevitable truth of Orthodoxy. Nevertheless I think it is incorrect to portray Orthodoxy as a strictly intellectual faith. Let us not forget that the vast majority of Orthodox believers over the last two millennia have been simple people; down-to-earth peasant folk in many cases. This is one of the wonderful things about Orthodoxy that most reflects its direct connection to God Himself. At once it offers a depth infinitely beyond the limits of even the most refined theological mind, yet at the same time it consists of a simple and practical way of life that anyone can embrace and be transformed by into sainthood. We might even say that simple people have a distinct advantage over their more learned friends, for the latter often have much intellectual baggage to overcome in order to embrace the mystical theology of Orthodoxy which simple people often seem to take to more naturally.<BR/><BR/>Finally, I am a bit confused by the concluding statement of “Anonymous”. I take his meaning to be an implication that Evangelicals understand the teaching of the Bible better than the Orthodox. If this is indeed what he means, nothing could be further from the truth. Evangelicals claim to know the Bible better simply because they have imposed upon it so many convoluted twists and rationalistic interpretations that any other Christian who does not do the same to arrive at the identical conclusions as a result are said to “not know the plain teaching of Scripture”. In my personal experience, one needs to break free from the Evangelical matrix before he can begin to read the Bible with understanding and stop explaining away the majority of its content.Fr. Michael Reaganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265035749268657422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1152888504127045032006-07-14T07:48:00.000-07:002006-07-14T07:48:00.000-07:00Regarding what "anonymous" said, it is actually in...Regarding what "anonymous" said, it is actually interesting that, while I am drawn to Orthodoxy in large part because of the way that it extends beyond the mind to the whole person, one of my wife's major objections is that it is too intellectual. I think the issue here is that Orthodoxy is intelletual (indeed, quite a bit more intellectual, for instance, in its liturgical songs, than you'd typically find in Protestant worship) without abandoning the rest of the human person. Evangelicalism is intellectual in its de-emphasis of the physical, but even so it is intellectually shallow. (Not that there can be no intellectual depth in Evangelicalism, but it normally does not carry over from the classroom into worship.) Orthodoxy fulfills one without neglecting the other.<BR/><BR/>Another interesting thing in this dynamic is that, although my wife objects to how intellectual Orthodoxy can be, her response to things like myrrh-streaming icons and hundreds of thousands of Russians flocking to see John the Baptist's right hand is overtly skeptical. I think calling it too intellectual or not intellectual enough oversimplifies the situation. The bottom line is that Protestantism has stripped away too much from the Christian life. It has become very narrow in its view of acceptable religion, and anything outside of its own comfort zone is considered eccentric.abuianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14177125847519190290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1152846902714761582006-07-13T20:15:00.000-07:002006-07-13T20:15:00.000-07:00It should be pointed out that Eastern Orthodoxy ha...It should be pointed out that Eastern Orthodoxy has a long and very solid history. The teachings of the EO Church are solid as well and offer a more spiritual Faith by one's own activities. Fasitng, Prayer etc.<BR/><BR/>If the Orthodox have such a wonderul history, then why aren't the "cerebral" solutions that Orthodoxy offers better in comparison to modern Evangelicalism?<BR/><BR/>To try and be clear, Orthodoxy should be more cerebral than the most Cerbral of Evangelicals just because the original Bible was in Greek the "native tongue" of the Church so to speak. Should not Orthodox teaching be the apex of Biblical Teaching rather than a footnote to it?<BR/><BR/>Much Respect Fr. Reagan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1152801877171410832006-07-13T07:44:00.000-07:002006-07-13T07:44:00.000-07:00Thanks, Father. That does help to clarify things.Thanks, Father. That does help to clarify things.abuianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14177125847519190290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1152751714311359202006-07-12T17:48:00.000-07:002006-07-12T17:48:00.000-07:00Ouch!! What you say in these last comments rings p...Ouch!! What you say in these last comments rings painfully true!! If I can just close this gap between what I say I believe, and how I speak and live, this will help Orthodoxy, not hinder it.<BR/><BR/>God have mercy on meAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1152726757842319532006-07-12T10:52:00.000-07:002006-07-12T10:52:00.000-07:00Abuian, thanks for sharing those thoughts with us....Abuian, thanks for sharing those thoughts with us.<BR/><BR/>I am attached to a parish whose population is almost entirely made up of converts from Evangelical or Charismatic backgrounds. Each year for several years now we have chrismated anywhere from a dozen to over 20 new converts from such churches. We have outgrown our present facilities faster than we anticipated and are presently in the process of purchasing the adjoining property to expand and accommodate our needs. Obviously the Holy Spirit is at work in American Christendom and drawing the hearts of many to a deeper Christian faith and experience. Thus despite the apparent pessimism of my original post, I do believe there is tremendous potential for the growth of Orthodoxy in America today and in the years to come.<BR/><BR/>Nevertheless, as your own experience would seem to verify, conversion to Orthodoxy is not exactly a painless process. People who are drawn to it often experience much grief from fellow Evangelicals who, as you say, are ignorant of historic Christianity and are deeply prejudiced against it. But there is more than mere ignorance at work here; Evangelicals are inheritors of a modern worldview radically different from the one Christianity was born in, and have built upon that a belief system which is entirely out of step with apostolic Christianity in many areas. From my perspective, Evangelicals lean heavily toward Gnosticism in many of their core beliefs, having systematically excised the many practical outworkings of the Incarnation of Christ from their largely cerebral faith. Thus it takes considerable time and a complete immersion in Orthodoxy to undo this and help people begin to think and live as Eastern Christians. It really requires a true conversion of thought and orientation to become Orthodox in America today. This is why long catechisms are still required, even in the “Christian” environment of America. In fact, it has been my experience that the conversion process continues long after a person is chrismated. It often requires many years for Orthodoxy to “take root” in a convert’s soul and bring about a truly Orthodox ethos and lifestyle.<BR/><BR/>It is clear that a growing number of Evangelical and Charismatic believers are willing to undergo this process. Yet the numbers presently are still small. On top of this, there are many more Christians who simply prefer an easier or more entertaining faith and will never find Orthodoxy attractive. For those who are “on the cusp” so to speak and wondering if becoming Orthodox is worth the effort, I think that the greatest contribution Orthodox believers can make to aiding them in their decision is to live their faith to the fullest and demonstrate the true power of Orthodoxy. God-loving believers are not and should not be attracted by mere words and arguments. What they want to see is if Orthodoxy really “works”. How are they going to see that if there is no one to show them? This is why I think that Orthodox evangelism should start by being “incarnated” in the lives of Orthodox believers, for this really is our most powerful outreach tool.Fr. Michael Reaganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265035749268657422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1152705965136274142006-07-12T05:06:00.000-07:002006-07-12T05:06:00.000-07:00I'm just trying to understand. I have no problem w...I'm just trying to understand. I have no problem with the notion of Orthodoxy as a calling, or the idea that Orthodox evangelism is going to look quite different from Evangelical practices. But does raising the bar in terms of lived faith have to mean lowering the bar in terms of anticipated response from those currently outside Orthodoxy? If Orthodoxy is still the apostolic Church, why should we expect so little?<BR/><BR/>My comment about Evangelicals who believe in living their faith was not meant to hold them up as better than Orthodox; rather, it was to observe that we cannot always make a clear distinction between those who are attracted to Evangelicalism and those who are interested in something more than just head knowledge. Yes, Evangelicalism offers an easier option, and this is why I suggested in my earlier comment that perhaps the problem for America is the variety of ways to go half-way with one's faith. But hasn't this always been the case? When has there not been some easier alternative to draw people away from the truth?<BR/><BR/>My gut reaction is to chalk up a lot of the American situation to ignorance. For centuries, Westerners have known almost nothing about Orthodoxy, and it's really not much better now. For two years I've been exploring Orthodoxy, and in that time I've talked to several Evangelicals--friends, pastors, seminary professors--anyone I could find. I'm practically begging for someone to talk me out of it, but almost invariably they have nothing to say. Why? Because they know almost nothing about Orthodoxy. All this ignorance combines with a high level of comfort and familiarity with Western faith traditions to give Orthodoxy the appearance of something pointlessly exotic.<BR/><BR/>But if Orthodoxy is the truth, if it is the Church, if it is Christianity as Christ intended, then why should those who already display a love for Christ not truly in their heart of hearts be seeking the Orthodox Church? Everywhere I go, I find sensitive Evangelicals who feel like their faith is lacking something. I agree that seeing the transformed lives of Orthodox believers living out their faith would be critical to showing them the answer. But rather than assuming that Orthodoxy will never really attract very many people in America, I feel like they're on the verge of waking up. I'm not sure what will best help them along, but it might take only the smallest thing to bring them knocking by the thousands. And that's to say nothing of Orthodoxy's ability to reach those who so far haven't found any church that really does it for them.<BR/><BR/>Maybe I feel this way because of the many times that I've wondered what God is trying to do with me where I am right now. Because my wife is uninterested, no priest seems particularly excited about bringing me into the Church without her. Honestly, I don't relish myself the thought of going regularly to separate churches. Is God keeping me here to help bring other Evangelicals along? Or am I simply suffering the consequences of my own pathetic witness? I don't have an answer, but I do have hope, that whether he lets me enter the Church or keeps me standing on the doorstep, he will use me for his greater glory.abuianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14177125847519190290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1152676020422697652006-07-11T20:47:00.000-07:002006-07-11T20:47:00.000-07:00Hello,I am a musician who has been heavily influen...Hello,<BR/>I am a musician who has been heavily influenced by Keith Green. I would be honored if you would check out my music. All music on my site is free for download.<BR/><BR/>I don't mean to be a pest, so if this message is an annoyance, please delete it and accept my humblest of apologies. I just want to share my music with people who love Jesus.<BR/><BR/>Thanks,<BR/>-Sean <BR/>______________<BR/>www.SeanDietrich.com<BR/>"All my music is free."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1152673096373043632006-07-11T19:58:00.000-07:002006-07-11T19:58:00.000-07:00Fr. Michael,I appreciate this post. Especially the...Fr. Michael,<BR/><BR/>I appreciate this post. Especially the idea of the Orthodox life as a "calling", rather than a choice between many "equal" options. All things being "equal", who WOULD choose a life of prayer, struggle, repentance, fasting, self-sacrifice, etc. with so many "easier", more "attractive" Christian "choices"? That's one reason why our parishes have as few as fifties to hundreds on a Sunday and some of the mega-churches have thousands!<BR/><BR/>I have likened the Orthodox life to chemotherapy for one who has advanced cancer! If you really KNOW you are dying, you are willing to go throught the nausea, hair loss, weight loss, etc. in order to live! <BR/><BR/>I am coming to agree with you that Orthodox evangelism cannot use the same paradigms as other Christian traditions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1152672163089574572006-07-11T19:42:00.000-07:002006-07-11T19:42:00.000-07:00Thank you, Fr. Michael for your kind comments.And ...Thank you, Fr. Michael for your kind comments.<BR/><BR/>And I apologize to you, Abuian, for any distress I have caused. If you are an Orthodox Christian, perhaps you remember the story of the elder monk who wondered if he and his fellow monastics had reached the limits of their spiritual endeavors. God directed him to an untrained peasant who lived in a local village, and who was exceedingly devout and had attained to an advanced spiritual level, while remaining extremely humble. The elder returned to his monastery announcing to his monks that he had found someone of great holiness exceeding their own, despite his living “in the world” outside the monastery. They all were thus motivated to pursue their communion with God with an even greater fervor, seeing the goodness of God to those outside their discipline.<BR/><BR/>My post was as much intended to inspire Orthodox Christians to pursue their beliefs with zeal, as it was to reach out to God-seeking non-Orthodox to consider the deficiencies of their own beliefs. No doubt there are some Evangelicals and Charismatics who far surpass many Orthodox Christians in true spirituality. But they have done so in excess to their system of faith, whereas the Orthodox have lagged behind by not living up to their system of faith. God is good, and will impart a measure of His grace to all who seek Him with their whole heart. Perhaps your wife is one such blessed person. But how much better is it to be a God-loving Orthodox believer, in communion with the fullness of His grace in His Church?<BR/><BR/>Forgive me.Fr. Michael Reaganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265035749268657422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1152663537981424402006-07-11T17:18:00.000-07:002006-07-11T17:18:00.000-07:00I must say, although I find a lot of truth in this...I must say, although I find a lot of truth in this post, I also find it a bit distressing. Are you saying that America is inherently less ready to receive the gospel than the Jewish and pagan worlds that converted in droves under the ministry of the apostles and then accepted Christianity on a national/imperial level? Or is it that the presence of an easier alternative in Western forms of Christianity diverts the flow of those who would otherwise enter the true Church? Is there something unique about this particular blend of giving people what they want and preserving a form of the truth--something that sets it apart from the options that existed in the past (paganism, heresies)?<BR/><BR/>The other issue I would bring up here is that, although I have certainly encountered my fair share of intellectually-oriented Evangelicals (indeed, I was one), there are also many Evangelicals who focus more on the practical outcomes of faith (my wife, for instance). Yes, they still have an intellectual bias in the shape of their worship and the approaches they take to spiritual growth, but they would consider it all worthless if it did not produce fruit. They measure their success not in terms of how many verses they've memorized but in terms of how obedient they are to God's will, how well they resist sin, how effectively they show the love of Christ in their lives, and how their lives complement their words in reaching the lost. I'm not saying they have it all together, but it seems like a significant omission to leave them out of the picture. And I should add that they can be just as skeptical about Orthodoxy as any other Evangelical.abuianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14177125847519190290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21822203.post-1152644286007321242006-07-11T11:58:00.000-07:002006-07-11T11:58:00.000-07:00Dear Fr. Michael,Nice summary of what many of us h...Dear Fr. Michael,<BR/><BR/>Nice summary of what many of us have concluded about "converting American to Orthodoxy." There will always be those who sense that there is something better than the thin milk they have been fed, but "converting" people cannot be a real Orthodox goal. Our job is to bear witness, and God will convert those who have "ears to hear and eyes to see."<BR/><BR/>Fr Michael LaffoonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com